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IAC Colour schemes and paint matches..... Options
DeBoss
Posted: Thursday, September 11, 2008 6:59:45 PM

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Please add/correct to this as you see fit.
Currently only matched to Humbrol paints.

(key; Hu- Humbrol paint number; WOI - noted from Wings Over Ireland, D McCarron; MD- noted from Max Decals).



Brisfit F2B/Avro 504K


Upper PC-10 3*Hu:163 + 4*Hu:108 + 3*Hu:33
Under Clear doped linen Hu:74 ( or 5*Hu:34 + 3*Hu:103 + 2*Hu:148)
Brisfit F2B grey engine cowling
Avro 504K black engine cowling (MD)

RAF SE5a 1922
Dark red fuse, silver wings. Find me a colour pic and you can say I'm wrong! (MD)

Fairey IIIF
Silver dope/Natural metal overall, black top decking. (WOI)

Avro 621 Tutor
Black Fuselage, silver flying surfaces. (WOI)

Avro 626

DH 84 Dragon

Avro Anson 1; Gloster Gladiator
Pre ‘Emergency’ schemes (Green fuse and silver wings)
Gladiator, Anson, etc, I used Hu. 120 Israeli light green, but I’m not sure if this should be darker.

Westland Lysander

Miles Magister I

Supermarine Walrus

Hawker Hind

Hawker Hector

Miles Master series

Hawker Hurricane series

Lockheed Hudson

Fairey Battle

Avro Anson C19

Miles Martinet TT.I

Seafire III

Spitfire Tr.9


DeHavilland Chipmunk, DeHavilland Dove, DeHavilland Vampire T55; Percival Provost; Fouga Magister;

I find that a sprayed coat of Humbrol 27002 Polished Aluminium MetalCote, with a coat of Johnson's Klear (for sealing decals) gives a good scale representation of the silver lacquer finish these were painted with. Hu. 27001 Matt Aluminium Metalcote can also be used, with further coats of klear to reproduce a more weathered appearance. A slightly matter and greyer silver paint was noted on the leading edges of wings of Fouga 216 during it's time (in outdoor storage) at Cork Airport. Back only about 4 or 5 inches from leading edge. Fougas also had Insignia Red Hu. 153 on leading edges of air intakes. Humbrol 209 gloss Fire Orange (over a white base) for the dayglo areas. (Tip for silver finishes; best to spray the white base first, overcoat with the dayglo, then mask the dayglo areas and apply the silver. Follow with decals and Klear coat.) Matt Black Hu. 33 anti-glare panels where required

Alouette II


Alouette III and Gazelle.


Early on Alouettes were either natural metal or painted silver. Can anyone confirm which?
Later on Alouettes and Gazelles were Overall ‘Aerodour’ Grey, Humbrol 196 is a very good match.
Gazelles had red (Hu. 153 Insignia Red) panels on front and underside, but these may have been Dayglo at one point (need confirmation on this).


Puma 242
The interior of Puma 242 in IAC service in 1982(not to be confused with the Bundesgrenzschutz machines which were flown by German Personnel in Ireland in 1979) was overall creamy grey colouring on quilted soundproofing material on the cabin walls. The troopseats down the centre of the cabin were a dark blue with blue seatbelts as were the two fold up seats on the rear cabin walls.
The floor was a dark grey colour. There was a curtain separating the cockpit from the troop compartment and this was blue on the cockpit side and cream on the troop cabin side.
There were some webbing straps to prevent people leaning on the rear plexiglass dome on the floor at the extreme rear of the cabin and these were white/light grey in colour. (Courtesy Joe Maxwell)

Exterior green, Hu. 163. Satin finish.


Aerospatiale SA365Fi Dauphin
grey Hu. 196, insignia red Hu. 153 (satin to glossy finish). White area on engine housing above blue stripe. Satin black nose radome (Hu. 85)

Cessna/Rhiems 172 and SIAI Marchetti

Overall green Hu. 163, gloss coated. Marchetti has dayglo orange patches, Hu. 209 fire orange (over a white base) or 205 Fluoroscent Matt Fire Orange (again, over a white base; this shade is discontinued).


Gulfstream series

CASA CN235

Eurocopter AS355

Pilatus PC-9M
Upper surfaces Hu. 127; Underside Hu 196. Insignia red Hu. 153 tips to wings, tailplanes and fin/rudder. Glossy finish, but in 1/72 scale a good semi-gloss gives a decent scale appearance. Johnsons Klear is ideal for this, as it tends to matten a little as it ages. As originally delivered, the upper surface grey wrapped around the leading edge of the underside of the main wing a few inches; since then the leading edges of wings have received a (matt?) black finish, which makes it look like the aircraft have rubber de-icing boots fitted, which they don't. Natural metal/silver finish undercarraige. Aerials under rear fuselage are white.

Eurocopter EC135

Sikorsky S-61N





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FiSe
Posted: Thursday, September 11, 2008 10:34:47 PM

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Very dangerous topic, well done Pray

I have done some reaserch a couple of years back, nothing too serious, so I would only say that the early Brisfits could have been painted in NIVO overall, at least some of them. NIVO was used as a camouflage colour of Home defence squadrons. This colour was applied on the engine cowling as well...
At least one of the Bristols had overpainted RAF roundels in 4 positions and tricolour on the fuselage and rudder and no other marking. I pressume that this is the one who fought 'shinners' around Blessington, which would make it B.II /?/
Then B.I looks like NIVO overall, no marking on the top wings, tricolour on the fuselage and rudder and under wings /?/
BF VII looks like PC10 with dark Grey cowling and 'typical' marking.
Late batch of Brisfits were painted in Silver dope with Grey cowling.

But it could be a totally different story. And it could vary from aircraft to aircraft as per usual practice of the IAC Think

I have Humbrol mixing ratios for the NIVO somewhere, but am too lazy to look for it now. You can always check IPMS Stockholm page to get it

Filip
FiSe
Posted: Friday, September 12, 2008 5:46:30 PM

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NIVO as per IPMS Stockholm:

6*Hu:116 + 6*Hu:117 + 1*Hu:163

Filip
Philip
Posted: Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:03:34 PM

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thanks for that - must check out my humbrol stocks to see if I ever bought "Israeli green". (dont think so)

anyone else out there - any views?

P

"To boldly go.....wherever"
DeBoss
Posted: Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:11:55 PM

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To be honest, Phillip, unless you have a colour picture, whose going to argue with you? They could have been a mid green, as I used, or even a shade like Emerald (Hu 2) or Brunswick green (Hu 3).

Edit; according to Wings over Ireland, it was sometimes described as 'Pea Green'. Whatever that is.
Can't wait for Joe's book to sort it all out.



If you tell people where to go, but not how to get there, you'll be amazed at the results. George S. Patton

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FiSe
Posted: Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:48:23 PM

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The right shade of green for Gladiators is stated as 'Titanine No. TE348' Flying In Ireland Dec/Jan 2008 issue in the article about the Irish Gladiators...

Another source says that the right shade of green used on Ansons is BS.381C/278
link for the chart: http://www.e-paint.co.uk/BS381%20Colourchart.asp?pType=&pFinish=

Filip
yeehah1
Posted: Sunday, September 14, 2008 4:58:36 PM

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14-09-08
For the Spitfire Tr.IX I used Lifecolor UA 060 (FS34227). Acrylic based but darn as clsoe as possible.

Liam

Mesa called Jar-Jar Binks. Mesa your humble servant.
I don't know. Mesa day startin pretty okee-day with a brisky morning munchy, then BOOM! Mesa gettin' very very scared!


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Dave Fleming
Posted: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 12:06:29 PM
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FiSe wrote:
Very dangerous topic, well done Pray

I have done some reaserch a couple of years back, nothing too serious, so I would only say that the early Brisfits could have been painted in NIVO overall, at least some of them. NIVO was used as a camouflage colour of Home defence squadrons. This colour was applied on the engine cowling as well...
At least one of the Bristols had overpainted RAF roundels in 4 positions and tricolour on the fuselage and rudder and no other marking. I pressume that this is the one who fought 'shinners' around Blessington, which would make it B.II /?/
Then B.I looks like NIVO overall, no marking on the top wings, tricolour on the fuselage and rudder and under wings /?/
BF VII looks like PC10 with dark Grey cowling and 'typical' marking.

I have Humbrol mixing ratios for the NIVO somewhere, but am too lazy to look for it now. You can always check IPMS Stockholm page to get it


Nivo was a dark slate green colour, in fact WW2 Royal Navy Dark Slate Grey was the nearest equivalent to it as a colour.

I'm not sure if B.I would have been in NIVO - as a shade it was not in as widespread use during WW1 as is often thought. In his book for Albatros Publications, Bruce Robertson states that 'it is doubtful if any operational aircraft of WW1 were finished in NIVO other than experimentally' (on Sopwith Camels and FE2bs). Post-WW1, it was used on night bombers. I've seen pictures of F2B's claimed to be in NIVO that were taken before the finish was developed!!

My guess would be that I would be more likely to be in an overall PC-10 finish, but wouldn't rule out an element of lampblack!!

II and III are interesting, both coming form the 'H' serialled series of Bristol Fighters. These were built in late 1918/early 1919 and were after the RAF introduced (on 30/9/18) a new doping scheme known as AMA. This was a darker brown shade than PC10. So it could be that the other aircraft were in the greener PC10 shade and II and III were in the browner AMA - might be interesting if you want to build more than one early Irish F2B!!
FiSe
Posted: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 8:16:33 PM

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Thanks for that Dave. So AMA, hmmm....
I have a Roden's Brisfit in half started stage, the Aber interior is done as are the other small bits and would like to build that first/?/ Irish one with the overpainted RAF roundels. Which was, perhaps, in original RAF colour scheme.
I think that the first batch of these aircrafts came to Ireland as a 2nd hand stock, so trace down the original RAF sqadron which were using them before could be an answer, but I can imagine that this might be an impossible task.



Filip
DeBoss
Posted: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:31:58 PM

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updated 30/Sep/2008.....

(Work in Progress!)



If you tell people where to go, but not how to get there, you'll be amazed at the results. George S. Patton

This space is for rent.
(Sshhh! Don't tell the Revenue Commissioners, the IMF or the Dept of Finance, or they'll tax my stash!)
Alouette
Posted: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 9:14:42 PM
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In relation to the dayglo colour applied to the SA342L Gazelle, it was initially delivered in an "incorrect" red colour. This happened when a small side-view was sent from Baldonnel to Aerospatiale at Marignane depicting the colour scheme to be applied to the new machine. The colour was grey (Aerodur) and what should have been dayglo. Since no-one had a dayglo marker at the time (circa 1979) the nearest colour marker found was a red one, so the appropriate areas were coloured in and the drawing was sent to France. The red areas were labelled "Dayglo". Aerospatiale never saw the word "Dayglo" and had great difficulty in finding a match for the red colour. When the pilots arrived to pick-up the helicopter (237) they were shocked to find it was in the wrong colour. It came back to Ireland and was joined in 1981 by 241 which was painted in the correct dayglo colour. The dayglo fades in sunlight so eventually the Gazelles, and later the Dauphins, were painted in the "incorrect" and more colour-fast red. Paul Fry wrote about this "incident" in the Air Corps' 1997 commerative booklet.

Alouette.
Murfv
Posted: Sunday, October 12, 2008 4:37:13 PM

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Hi all.
Can any one guide me with regard to proper/nearest off the shelf paint (preferably Humbrol) match for the underwing strips
and national markings(Green & Gold/Orange) on IAC aircraft (closest to the colors used on the Max decal sets)?

Thanks
Vincent.


Vincent

Too much plastic...not enough time
Alouette
Posted: Sunday, October 12, 2008 10:36:45 PM
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I had a look through some older issues of SAM, in particular the builds by Tony O'Toole of the IAC Spitfire and Seafire. He had to do up a hand painted Celtic Boss on one of the models. He didn't mention a specific colour for the orange or green. He said he mixed up the two colours by matching them to the decals he already had. So no joy there.

Try putting a request on this forum;

http://www.worldairpics.com/forum/

A very knowledgeable guy called Tony Kearns can be found here and if he knows what the colours are, he is bound to answer any query you have. The only other solution will be to wait for Maxdecals' new book on the 'Corp. Not sure when it will be out, possibly in time for Christmas or the new year.

Alouette.
ei-ylg
Posted: Sunday, October 09, 2011 10:22:11 AM

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Seafire Green,

While i was doing some research on the web for my own seafire i came across this board, if you scroll down, and see 2 pictures of engine cowls which are apparently off Seafire 157.

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=675&page=2

paul

"i work with real models"

http://paulkolbephotography.zenfolio.com/
FiSe
Posted: Sunday, October 09, 2011 10:41:24 AM

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Which board?

You've forgot to post link to it...
here: http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=675&page=2


Anyway, it's known fact that almost every IAC aircraft was repainted during the service with the corps, some more than once and, I would believe that the paint not always matched the 'prescribed' original shade and even though they are talking about 2 shades of green I can see 3 shades of green Book

Filip
FiSe
Posted: Sunday, October 09, 2011 10:55:31 AM

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now we have it 3times, what I am gathering is, that there's not much original left from the IAC machine and that the machine dissapeared again...

Filip
ei-ylg
Posted: Sunday, October 09, 2011 11:02:54 AM

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@fise, do you know what front canopy was on it, as the italeri gives you two, im not a spitfire/seafire expert, but that pic looks like its the armoured one with the bulged frame on the front.

"i work with real models"

http://paulkolbephotography.zenfolio.com/
FiSe
Posted: Sunday, October 09, 2011 1:26:47 PM

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No.8 in the link. Internal armoured glass, and I don't think that Irish Seafires had cockpit armour at all. I've read it somewhere in one of those books.

http://www.falconmodels.co.nz/clearvax/set41.html

Filip
noelh
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 2:34:49 PM
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Found those pictures of the Seafire cowlings interesting. Clearly at least two colours, the delivery colour? and a later overpaint? Now as it happens I have an old Irish army MKII helmet. It was repainted several times probably using the same paint as was used on Irish military vehicles of the time. Within the limitations of my monitor it's looks very close to that on the Seafire. The same glossyness and tone. There's a certain logic to it, after all the Air Corps vehicles would be the same colour. I wonder if this is the elusive colour? I'll try and match it with something. As for the underlying colour this actually looks like the colours of a piece of a crashed Seafire which I once had. Which I matched to Light Slate Grey. The crash was in 1951, maybe it happened before a repaint.

FiSe
Posted: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 2:45:46 PM

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That's a very interesting connection.
Almost every IAC aircraft was repainted at least once during service and not every time the original colour was available, so the shades do vary and I think that the Seafire/Spitfire shade could have been chosen to match the Army green. I wonder if later repaints were done using paint from Army stock.
I believe that even aircraft used during Emergency - like Hurricanes and Gladiators - haven't been painted in original RAF shades while serving in the IAC, but in shades and pattern similar to those used in the RAF, although some of the original BS shades could survive intact on some places. This is not confirmed though, just my deduction - and I was wrong before ;o)

1951 crash is No.154, I don't have access to the log book, to see when and what work has been done to the airframe, but it happened 4 years after delivery, so it could be repainted.

Filip
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