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I've just realised that the AGM is scheduled for the Saturday before the show. As the show is only a one-day event, and a lot of members will only be there on the Sunday, would it not make more sense to have it Sunday?
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Roy
The AGM has been fixed for the Saturday, as agreed by the Committee - my post of 31st May under events (D1) refers.
E-mail inbound to you.
Philip
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DeBoss wrote:I've just realised that the AGM is scheduled for the Saturday before the show. As the show is only a one-day event, and a lot of members will only be there on the Sunday, would it not make more sense to have it Sunday?
What he said, Bit of an awkward day for folks outside of the Dublin area one might say, Even some dudes are working that day 
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DeBoss wrote:I've just realised that the AGM is scheduled for the Saturday before the show. As the show is only a one-day event, and a lot of members will only be there on the Sunday, would it not make more sense to have it Sunday?
I concur, it would make a lot of sense. I, for one, cannot make it to Dublin until Sunday and at that I'll be too late to enter the competition so as they say in Dragon's Den... I'm out! It would be nice to be present at the AGM to get all the developments of the society first hand and allow my vote to be heard... from what I've been hearing over the last couple of months someone has been a very naughty boy needs a slap on the wrist for acting ungentlemanly and not in the best interests of the society.  Happy modelling! Vinny
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I wonder when on Sunday? 4 o'clock in the morning or after the competition and be back home around midnight at the earliest or even later?
Speaking for myself, Saturday it what I've told and Saturday it is so, for me... Either I can make it and will try my best to make it, or I can't make it, couldn't be bothered to make it, don't have money to pay for overnight accommodation or whatever, then I will try to talk through some of the issues on branch meeting and delegate my chairman to put things forward or even pass my vote to him - if there's the possibility...
Furthermore, there will be very tiny contingent in Telford this year, so Saturday night pint or two with other branch club members is badly needed. In my opinion, of course
Filip
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Vinny,
I take your point. Unfortunately, having the AGM in combination with the Irish Nationals in one day just wasn't a possibility, I'm afraid, as we will be run off our feet in any event. There are few enough people who are prepared to give of their time to the club anyhow (that doesn't apply to you personally, as you do your bit with the website etc). The Committee took a lot of time and effort to go for a two day affair, but the costs of hiring a venue for the two days were just too much, unfortunately, for our meagre finances. As it is, we will be lucky to break even on the one day booking. As somebody once said - you gotta walk before you can run.
However, nobody could validly argue that they didn't know, as the post was up there since May 31st, giving the details of when the AGM would be on.
Nonetheless, you do make a valid point about allowing your voice to be heard, and so we will be sending out the agenda for the AGM, and the draft constitution, to all IPMS IRELAND members, by e-mail over the next day or two, with a blank ballot paper for people to fill in, and return to the Chairman, Vincent Murphy, in advance of the day if they cannot make it in person. This will allow all those who are paid-up members to have a vote, even if they cannot attend on the Saturday.
This kind of stuff is internal club business, whereas the forum is an open one, with (I understand) over 6,000 "members". That's why we will be communicating, by e-mail, only to IPMS IRELAND members.
It's a pity you will not be able to make it up from Cork before midday on the Sunday to register your models in the competition, as I was looking forward to seeing some of your fine creations in the civil aircraft class. Is there ANYONE coming up from Cork before then that you could give your models to, for entering into the competition?? If so, I'm sure we could be flexible about the registration process......
Cheers,
Philip
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Or you can always drop your stuff to Lim and I can take it with me on Saturday. It's only 1hr 15 mins to Dunkettle from my house using M8.
You know the old saying: Where's a will there's a way
Filip
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FiSe wrote:Or you can always drop your stuff to Lim and I can take it with me on Saturday. It's only 1hr 15 mins to Dunkettle from my house using M8.
You know the old saying: Where's a will there's a way Yeah Vinny, Easy peasy, no excuses dude. 
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15 09 2011 I think, in fairness, that a number of people may have been otherwise occupied with their lives and have not been on the forum and have not taken in when the AGM was planned for. A lot of the guys outside Dublin, in the current economic situation ( and with an eye on Telford) just cannot justify the expense of an overnight stay in Dublin yet want to support the show and would like to have a say in the AGM about whatever issues or thoughts they might have. And yes, I know, they don't do this anywhere else in the IPMS family, but we are still small enough to try this, being more of a family than a full blown organisation. No-one is suggesting that we hold an late-night session on Sunday for everyone who cannot attend on Saturday but could we maybe adjorn to the bar or lounge or patio or whatever after the show and have the salient points discussed in much the same way as what happens in Telford during the show over there? It doesn't have to be for hours on end...I for one need to get back home as early as possible as I have committments elsewhere Sunday night. So, maybe give it an hour, take some notes and add them to the minutes of the AGM? It's about being flexible, yes? Next year, prehaps something better can be arranged should the fiances be better. It's just a few thoughts. I can't be there on Saturday due to prior committments so I'll miss the AGM. Sorry. Liam
Mesa called Jar-Jar Binks. Mesa your humble servant. I don't know. Mesa day startin pretty okee-day with a brisky morning munchy, then BOOM! Mesa gettin' very very scared!  I am the Rules Police. It's better than being the Thought Police.
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As I said:-
"The AGM has been fixed for the Saturday, as agreed by the Committee - my post of 31st May under events (D1) refers."
If folks want to adjourn after D1 to the bar, or lounge or patio, in Swords to have a discussion about the club on the Sunday, and about what decisions by then will have been reached at the AGM the day before, that's fine. If people want to add the results of these discussions as an addendum to the minutes of the AGM, for information, I'm sure that that will be fine too. That's being as flexible as possible.
But we do need to have an AGM, and to elect a National Committee. These things will happen on the Saturday.
I might even stay on myself to listen to, and potentially participate in, such a discussion (I have already booked a day's annual leave for the following Monday as I expect to be non compos mentis by then anyhow).
I fully respect that some folks are not in a position to come on Saturday, for whatever reason. Personally, I have decided not to go to Telford this year (which I did last year, and in 2008), but rather to spend my money on our own Irish Nationals, including paying for accomodation in the hotel on Saturday night in Swords (even though I live only 30 km away in Naas), as I need to be there on the Sunday morning early to help to set up for the day - and I acknowledge, Liam, that you did this in Cork last year (fair play to you).
As I mentioned earlier, voting papers will be sent in the next couple of days to all IPMS IRELAND members, and therefore nobody who is entitled to vote at the AGM will be disenfranchised......
Fise, I think, said it best.....
"Speaking for myself, Saturday it what I've told and Saturday it is so, for me... Either I can make it and will try my best to make it, or I can't make it, couldn't be bothered to make it, don't have money to pay for overnight accommodation or whatever......Furthermore, there will be very tiny contingent in Telford this year, so Saturday night pint or two with other branch club members is badly needed. In my opinion, of course"
Philip
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This being my first year and never having been to an AGM or show I can't comment specifically on when best to hold the IPMS meeting, but I have seen the same debate in other, non-modeling related club.
In the interest of any club the AGM needs to be taken serious and supported. Many clubs have lots of members but it's the same small group that attend AGMs. It also needs to be given the time to fully debate any agenda items. Having it on the same day as the biggest event in our calendar would increase the attendance in theory (in practice many would still be outside having side-bar talks)but limit the time available. It really is a no-win situation. Postal ballots go some way to assist those who can not attend, but does not allow for debate.
Can I suggest if there are people with specific items of interest on the agenda where they wish to contribute to the discussion, but cannot attend in person, that the committee consider individual requests for contributions by phone on specific items as a trial....
Having said all that I won't be attending but as Philip pointed out I knew the date for quite some time.
Sean
Cheers
Sean
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Sean
"In the interest of any club the AGM needs to be taken serious and supported. Many clubs have lots of members but it's the same small group that attend AGMs. It also needs to be given the time to fully debate any agenda items. Having it on the same day as the biggest event in our calendar would increase the attendance in theory (in practice many would still be outside having side-bar talks)but limit the time available."
Very true.
"Can I suggest if there are people with specific items of interest on the agenda where they wish to contribute to the discussion, but cannot attend in person, that the committee consider individual requests for contributions by phone on specific items as a trial...."
Interesting suggestion.
We could arrange for people who are sending in their votes by post to Vincent to include any other comments they would wish to have considered at the AGM. (Though by post, not by phone - otherwise the AGM might be like one of those auctions with people on the end of phone lines around the hall!! )
Philip
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Philip wrote:We could arrange for people who are sending in their votes by post to Vincent to include any other comments they would wish to have considered at the AGM. (Though by post, not by phone - otherwise the AGM might be like one of those auctions with people on the end of phone lines around the hall!! )
I was thinking of more along the lines of where a member has submitted an item for consideration, or is considered the subject matter expert, and connot attend in person then that one individual can participate for that portion of the AGM by phone. I agree a free-for-all phone conference call would quickly degenerate into farce.
Cheers Sean
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@35th Scale Hi, Sean, Somehow it brings a new and interesting idea of " Ask The Audience" or 50/50 to paraphrase a certain show!!!!
"i work with real models" http://paulkolbephotography.zenfolio.com/
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17 09 2011 Had a discussion today at the Snn/Lmk meeting and it all seems well thought out and so on and kudos to the gentleman who provided the draft constitution but after thinking about for a bit, what is the difficulty with posting the forum on the web-site? Non-members can't vote for it because they are non-members and won't be getting the ballot paper anyway and while they could comment upon it, they can't action anything about it unless they pay up and join. And in fact, it might give them the impetus they need to actually shell out and join. It's all a bit Tinker Tailor Soldier Sailor. It also tastes a little of elitism. We want to be as inclusive and transparent as possible. What does it matter if a browser on our forum sees the club constitution, whether draft form or finalised approved or not? We're not drafting a constitutional amendment to the European Union here. There's no big secret, nothing different in there than you'd see for any club or organisation the lenght and breadth of the country. Let people see it. It doesn't involve secret handshakes, passwords, winks, nods, wallah wallahs. It's just a statement of how we're organising the adminstrative element of OUR organisation. If we are going to be closing this off from people who might be interested in joining a society that's open, transparent and inclusive to ALL comers, this could be interpreted as a desire to split the organisation ( secretly) into an us and them. Who cares who sees it, only paid up members can vote to effect changes in it anyway. I think we're being overly protectionist over the constitution. If it were posted under one the tabs on the home page for all to see or indeed if a new tab were created on the homepage for it, I don't see the harm it. No-one who is not a member can vote on it, it's just there to be seen and can be updated at anytime. It's underlining the steps we, as an organisation are taking in order to cement the administrative side of the ORGANISATION to ensure it will be still around, well run and well looked after by those who subsequently get elected into the relevant positions. As for the elections, how are the candidates who are standing for election to the committee nominated and how would we vote for them? Do we just select them and write their names on the blank paper. What does it matter if non paid up members see the constitution? Their votes won't matter as they haven't got any and they won't have been sent the ballot paper. I won't be standing as there are too many other things I have to deal with, but this kind of Don't Show the Neighbours mentality worries me. It's suggesting there is something to hide when there isn't. Courage, chaps, and bold steps. Liam
Mesa called Jar-Jar Binks. Mesa your humble servant. I don't know. Mesa day startin pretty okee-day with a brisky morning munchy, then BOOM! Mesa gettin' very very scared! I am the Rules Police. It's better than being the Thought Police.
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17 09 2011 One other thought: The Committee is elected by the members of the club, right|? That means if the club members vote or request, as a majority for a certain thing to be done, then the committee is obliged to make it happen. The committee works for the club - not the club for the committee. If members want the consititution up on the web site or forum, then the committee are obliged to make it happen. If the majority of members aren't bothered one way or the other, then so be it as well. Just a thought Liam
Mesa called Jar-Jar Binks. Mesa your humble servant. I don't know. Mesa day startin pretty okee-day with a brisky morning munchy, then BOOM! Mesa gettin' very very scared! I am the Rules Police. It's better than being the Thought Police.
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Georgeconna wrote:FiSe wrote:Or you can always drop your stuff to Lim and I can take it with me on Saturday. It's only 1hr 15 mins to Dunkettle from my house using M8.
You know the old saying: Where's a will there's a way Yeah Vinny, Easy peasy, no excuses dude. LOL! I know but if only life was that simple. Anyway, how am I supposed to do that when I'll be out having a couple of pints with you!  Oh, I'm not complaining at all that I won't be there on time to enter the competition... that's my own problem. I feel quite relieved actually. I was going great a couple of weeks ago and then lost the motivation to model as I was rushing through paint jobs and it all suddenly lost its fun. Plus life took over and I had other things to sort out. It's a hobby to me and at the end of the day I build for myself. It's something to take me away from it all while listening to music or watching a movie. I don't want to rush long-running projects for the competition and with two weeks to go they're far from finished. I usually allow that amount of time for paint jobs to gas off and decals to completely dry before final coats. Maybe I'll have stuff ready for next year!  I'd be very thankful to someone who offered to take my models for me but no offence to anyone, I would find it difficult to let them out of my care. I don't touch my models without gloves when I finish them and they're stored securely. After putting a few months into a model I just can't stand to see it get damaged. If it breaks then I have ony myself to blame. @Philip: I totally understand the situation with the AGM and its scheduling. The issue should have been raised prior to the date being set in stone. To be honest, I don't really mind not being there. Yes, it would be nice to see how the society is progressing and plans for the future but at least you have decided to allow postal votes. I have no interest in a constitution for such a small society. The way I see it, I make models, I share my tips, I get tips, I enjoy the banter with fellow modellers, and I am respectful to them and their work. I don't need a constitution to do that so I'll let the politics up to those who are interested. This is the way I did things before IPMS and this is the way I'll continue to do things. Constitution... thanks to those involved with compiling it but I doubt I'll read it. The voting issue is important to me because, even though I get on with my own stuff, there comes a point when I must act against one individual's incessant and tedious tirades against fellow committee members and directly disrespectful towards other modellers who are not members of IPMS. This is tarnishing the name of IPMS Ireland. In fact, I know of modellers who will not join IPMS Ireland because of these immature, vilifying rants going about and the impending elitism. It is clear it is not about the hobby anymore and guys don't need the extra nonsense in their lives. People don't want politics and bitching in hobbies... they get enough of it in the news and at home. I will only act fairly in the democracy we have and cast my vote. However, I am concerned that, as there are so little members, there may not be a choice of running candidates to contest positions. Philip, you're right about the extra forum members and this an issue that I would have brought up at the AGM. But seeing as I won't be there, I'll mention it here as it needs to be resolved. There are thousands of fake or spam "members" which must be cleaned up. I was going to look into this but you asked last year that Paul H (ei-ylg) get admin rights to the forum for this purpose. I cleared it with Roy and we gave Paul the admin privileges. As of yet, I don't see any changes to anything on the forum so I'll probably go about this task myself again at some point when I have time. It certainly will be no easy task and I never expected/wanted to be maintaining the forum. The security and ease of joining the forum needs to be looked at but, other than getting a completely new forum, I might start by extracting all members who have no posts (or one) and deleting them.  So if there are any lurkers out there... get posting! It would be nice to make it to the AGM but it's not practical at the moment so I'm aiming to catch up at the Nationals and putting faces to some names. Best of luck to all entering the competition and I look forward seeing your work. Two weeks to go... don't get stressed! Vinny
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18 09 2011 Hi Vinny We all thank you for the work that you do in maintianing the forum. It's invaluable and much appreciated. One point though with regard the constitution. The constitution is not design and is not meant to affect how you model, when you model or anything on that side of thing s at all. It purely administrative to provide, as I understand it, a framework from where the organsiation, small as we are, can be ensured survival by having a comittee in place to orgnaise shows, funding etc so that we can organsie shows, funding etc. It IS worth your while to take even a quick look at it in case there is something in there you might not be happy with or causes you concern or indeed to make sure everything in it is hunky dory. I mean, you say you are perfectly happy to vote on issues etc, so why not give the consitution a whirl for a few minutes and at least you can say you are familiar with it. IPMS Ireland may be small now, but the bigger picture is to grow it into a larger, healthy, well run and happy organisation that will be around for a long time. The constitution will enable the administrative side to provide for that and also provides you and the membership a forum upon which to voice your grievances and your praise, as well as elect the people you want to represent you on the committee. I would encourage all members to take a look at it once it becomes available and see what you think. Liam
Mesa called Jar-Jar Binks. Mesa your humble servant. I don't know. Mesa day startin pretty okee-day with a brisky morning munchy, then BOOM! Mesa gettin' very very scared! I am the Rules Police. It's better than being the Thought Police.
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yeehah1 wrote:17 09 2011
...what is the difficulty with posting the forum on the web-site?
Non-members can't vote for it because they are non-members and won't be getting the ballot paper anyway and while they could comment upon it, they can't action anything about it unless they pay up and join. And in fact, it might give them the impetus they need to actually shell out and join.
...
It also tastes a little of elitism. We want to be as inclusive and transparent as possible. What does it matter if a browser on our forum sees the club constitution, whether draft form or finalised approved or not? We're not drafting a constitutional amendment to the European Union here. There's no big secret, nothing different in there than you'd see for any club or organisation the length and breadth of the country. Let people see it. It doesn't involve secret handshakes, passwords, winks, nods, wallah wallahs. It's just a statement of how we're organising the adminstrative element of OUR organisation.
If we are going to be closing this off from people who might be interested in joining a society that's open, transparent and inclusive to ALL comers, this could be interpreted as a desire to split the organisation ( secretly) into an us and them. Who cares who sees it, only paid up members can vote to effect changes in it anyway.
I think we're being overly protectionist over the constitution. If it were posted under one the tabs on the home page for all to see or indeed if a new tab were created on the homepage for it, I don't see the harm it. No-one who is not a member can vote on it, it's just there to be seen and can be updated at anytime....
...
As for the elections, how are the candidates who are standing for election to the committee nominated and how would we vote for them?
...
.... but this kind of Don't Show the Neighbours mentality worries me. It's suggesting there is something to hide when there isn't. Courage, chaps, and bold steps.
Liam
 I personally can't see any reason why the draft constitution could not have been put up on the website all along. People are now going to vote on it after only seeing it just before the AGM, without much time for the possibility of amendments.
If you tell people where to go, but not how to get there, you'll be amazed at the results. George S. Patton This space is for rent.(Sshhh! Don't tell the Revenue Commissioners, the IMF or the Dept of Finance, or they'll tax my stash!)
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yeehah1 wrote:17 09 2011
One other thought:
The Committee is elected by the members of the club, right? Not as yet, but will be on Saturday 1st Oct. Members who have not seen the ballot paper yet, although it is going to be sent out to them. I just feel it would have been easier for all to have it on the website to download. Philip has clarified to me via email that none of the candidates have been selected yet. There is a plan in place for the election, but I'll let him fill you all in on that.  p.s. Vinny is not the only one maintaining the forum.  I'll be discussing the registration issues with him next Sat, as I might have a great idea............... 
If you tell people where to go, but not how to get there, you'll be amazed at the results. George S. Patton This space is for rent.(Sshhh! Don't tell the Revenue Commissioners, the IMF or the Dept of Finance, or they'll tax my stash!)
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