|
|
Rank: Newbie
Groups: Member
Joined: 1/25/2012
Posts: 1
Points: 3
Location: England
|
Hello everyone,
I'm planning to set about a Seafire, as my next project, in the Camouflage and Markings of an Irish Air Corps Seafire L.III
But I'm intrigued to know if anyone has any particular opinion on the best kit to use as a starting point? (1/48)
I had planned to get a Special Hobby Seafire L.III but what exactly does a De-Navalised Seafire look like? I find some stuff written on the subject in general terms but it all raises as many questions as provides answers to me. I've had various kits suggested and been sent here as a useful reference point.
|
|
Rank: Beyond The Box
Groups: Member
Joined: 9/13/2011
Posts: 79
Points: 237
Location: Ashford, Wicklow
|
Hmm. Seafires I could probably help with, but a de-navalized one? I'll have to ask an expert. Let me get back to you as soon as I can.
How do you eat an elephant....
....start at one end and keep chewing.
On the bench:
1/24 Airfix Bf109 E OOB
1/24 Trumpeter Hurricane IIc, most definitely not OOB.
In the wings:
Trumpeter Hurricane MkI, BoB in flight versus Airfix B2 Stuka, 1/24 dogfight double.
|
|
Rank: Administration
Groups: Moderators
Joined: 9/7/2008
Posts: 922
Points: 1,978
Location: Co. Limerick
|
Ditch the landing hook and make the tail the same as normal Mk.V Spit, don't fold the wings and. . . that's really it. Oh, and get rid of the armour plates in the cockpit.
And search for camera installation on the Seafires, Irish Seafires had camera windows on both sides of the fuselage.
Filip
|
|
Rank: Glue Sniffer
Groups: Member
Joined: 1/22/2012
Posts: 72
Points: 216
Location: Dublin
|
I bought the 1/48 Special Hobby Seafire after being seduced by Joe Maxwell & Pat Cummings 'Irish Air Corps' book. It's still on my 'must build' list, just haven't got around to it yet. It appears to be a very detailed, crisp panel lined kit with PE seat belts and levers. It doesn't have the camera apertures, but they could be drilled. I have decals for 153 & 146 and theoretically, I can make any combination of numerals for the codes, if I have a good reference for the typeface.
However, in Joe's book there are photos of 146, 155 & 157 which don't appear to have the camera windows, but I'm willing to be corrected on that.
The other point I'm interested in, that Filip makes, is de-armouring the cockpit. Hadn't thought of that one - is it the armoured headrest behind the pilot? If so, was there anything above the seat back, behind the pilot's head?
Gerry
|
|
Rank: Step away from the computer!
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/10/2009
Posts: 154
Points: 330
Location: Dublin
|
.. You CAN fold the wings if you like, although IAC Seafires were denavilsed & the arrester hook was removed they all kept their wing folding capability. ..the oblique camera is also an option, not a obligation. Im also led to believe the walkways on the upper wings were red & not black as mentioned in Joe's EXCELLENT book :) ..just a note on the color/shade, there could have been many many shades of this green/grey. There's no exact science for it, different fading effects from age, re-paints, quick touch-ups, paint mix technique & materials used at a time when there was nearly more money than now, all have to be factored in! From experience I once saw an old 1990's Nissan Patrol with at least 5 different coloured panels! The army will tell you the paint is the same number but these were all applied at different times & different locations, infact the vehicle was originally South African & on the inside you could still see the shiny navy panels in places!  I think everyone can agree the Seafire is a kind of Slate-Grey Green & if this individual thread is anything to go by then don't get caught up in worrying about getting an exact shade :) Roy K
|
|
Rank: Administration
Groups: Moderators
Joined: 9/7/2008
Posts: 922
Points: 1,978
Location: Co. Limerick
|
Gerry, the camera windows were easily blanked out with upside down 'U' shape cover, if you look closely on some good photographs you'll find it there. Port side window on the radio hatch, starboard side aft of the hatch.
As far as I know, armoured plate behind the head and behind the seat, the round shaped Seafire headrest remained, at least on some of the machines.
..and as Roy said, the folding wing mechanism was there, but the wings were fixed or 'pinned' in down position, which would mean that some labour would have to be carried out to remove those internal brackets.
In other words: you can make one with folded wings, but /!/ it would be in the storage after they were withdrawn from service use and just before they've been dumped behind the hangars.
But, again, that's too much of 'that was that and this was this talk...'
..and re font for the numbers, there was none, all number were handpainted and it wouldn't surprise me if the numbers were different height, thickness and shape on different aircraft
Filip
|
|
Rank: Can't see the modelling bench
Groups: Member
Joined: 9/7/2008
Posts: 276
Points: -2,348
Location: Shannon, Co.Clare, Ireland
|
27 01 2012 And if someone tells you that you've painted it the wrong shade of grey-green, ask THEM to prove it. And then tell us! Filip: Which bits in the cockpit are the armoured bits then, if not the head-piece and the bit behind the seat? Can you show us? Liam
Mesa called Jar-Jar Binks. Mesa your humble servant. I don't know. Mesa day startin pretty okee-day with a brisky morning munchy, then BOOM! Mesa gettin' very very scared!  I am the Rules Police. It's better than being the Thought Police.
|
|
Rank: Glue Sniffer
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 57
Points: 74
Location: Dublin and London
|
And don't forget the Roundel... the mirror each other ith the green side inboard...
I say this as there is a fantastic display of 1/32 scale Spitfires coveing just about every incarnation from the prototype up the the last mark to enter service and one of the models is of the IAC twin seater... it looks amazing but the roundals are not mirrored. I seen the display a several shows now and I guess no one has mentioned it.
disclaimer: all my information points to the roundals being mirrored however the modeller may have access to images/information that I am not aware of so the model could be correct
|
|
Rank: Administration
Groups: Moderators
Joined: 9/7/2008
Posts: 922
Points: 1,978
Location: Co. Limerick
|
yeehah1 wrote:27 01 2012
Filip: Which bits in the cockpit are the armoured bits then, if not the head-piece and the bit behind the seat? Can you show us?
Liam That's them... I should have said 'the head leather padding' remained...
Filip
|
|
Rank: Glue Sniffer
Groups: Member
Joined: 1/22/2012
Posts: 72
Points: 216
Location: Dublin
|
Filip, don't suppose you have any visuals of how the circular padded headrest was supported behind the pilot?
Gerry
|
|
Rank: Administration
Groups: Moderators
Joined: 9/7/2008
Posts: 922
Points: 1,978
Location: Co. Limerick
|
It would have been fixed on the bulkhead... But scrap that, I was wrong, there is no photographic evidence - or I can't find any photo - that this headrest was fitted to the Irish Seafires. I quickly went through some of the photographs and can't find single aircraft with this yoke in place. My apology for misleading information.
I'd better check next time I will be trying to be smarty-panty
Filip
|
|
Rank: Spending too much time on the PC...
Groups: Member
Joined: 1/6/2010
Posts: 211
Points: -69
Location: Sixmilebridge
|
I have a copy of an I.A.C. drawing, done in mid 1946 showing the "Identification Marks" for the Seafire. It had the celtic boss in two colours on the white background. it also shows the digits 1 -0 for the font and layout. the scale of the drawing is: 1": 2.2' (one inch to 2 point 2 feet) whatever scale that works out at. I will try to scan it - it;s a big architects drawing. It shows the markings with for 146 and the note with it says " Possibly finish as for Mk IX Colour grey Green - RAF Stores Ref 33B/746" However 746 does not seem to be a known colour now, as I have asked on several forums. 
|
|
Rank: Step away from the computer!
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/10/2009
Posts: 154
Points: 330
Location: Dublin
|
Very very interesting!!
Thanks for sharing that last post,
I'll be talking to a few people who might know more in early Feb,
fingers crossed they may be able to shed more light on this..
Roy K :)
|
|
Rank: Administration
Groups: Moderators
Joined: 9/7/2008
Posts: 922
Points: 1,978
Location: Co. Limerick
|
Guys, let's keep it simple, please. I don't understand what's the big mystery about all this. If you read J.Maxwell and P. Cummins book, you'll find all the answers there:
- Sample of the colour scheme was supplied to Vickers by the IAC - so it looks like it really was a sample used on Army vehicles as discussed in other thread
furthermore:
- ...swatch indicates that the colour was BS283 Interior Green...
- as these will be used mainly for training removing of all, or some of the armour plates were requested to save weight
- as well as the wing fold mechanism be rendered in such a way as to not require maintenance - page 117
Re David's drawings, they are interesting, but they show nothing apart from the general location of boss, numbers and tricolours. If you look at the photograph of the 146 in above mentioned book -page 116, you'll see that the numbers differ from those on the real thing '4' is most noticeable
Now, we can either build a kit or two of the Seafire as best as we can with information widely available up to date, or we can sit and wait until detailed drawings with all the datas are published - there is a sketch or two with all the stencils, sizes and locations and there are colour profiles of the Seafires too and they will be published at some stage, that's all what I can say
Apology, if that sounds a bit harsh
Filip
|
|
Rank: Spending too much time on the PC...
Groups: Member
Joined: 1/6/2010
Posts: 211
Points: -69
Location: Sixmilebridge
|
Filip,
I have to agree with you, drawings or not, there is/has been simply too much unclear about the "true" colour etc on all the old acft. Build and paint as best one can and have fun.
David
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 1/16/2012
Posts: 15
Points: 45
Location: Galway via Dublin
|
I'll just repost this picture from other thread which is apparently the cowling from an IAC Seafire.  Clearly at least two separate colours, early and late? I also noted the later paint seemed to match the colour of an old Irish army helmet which I have. I also once had a small piece of a Seafire which had both interior green and the external colour on it. They were different, the interior green being significantly greener.
|
|
Rank: Step away from the computer!
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/10/2009
Posts: 154
Points: 330
Location: Dublin
|
[quote=FiSe]Guys, let's keep it simple, please. I don't understand what's the big mystery about all this. If you read J.Maxwell and P. Cummins book, you'll find all the answers" Keep yer knickers on mate, you'll end up giving yourself an Aneurysm  If the lads want to chat about this what's the harm, not everyone has the books and information at hand so this thread will be good free reference material from the research done No harm intended Filip :) Roy K
|
|
Rank: Administration
Groups: Moderators
Joined: 9/7/2008
Posts: 922
Points: 1,978
Location: Co. Limerick
|
Roy, I am afraid that you took it the wrong way. I am trying to make things as clear as possible, without going into all that rumour and hearsay, which creeps into any thread were IAC Seafire is mentioned.
I have quoted some facts from a book - which most people on here do own - in a good faith and hope that this will help Digglyda - and others who might stumble across this - with his project. If he'll decide to fold the wings, leave the camera windows out and paint the model in Forrest Green or in Pink with Yellow polka dots is none of my concern.
For me, original colour and features of the IAC Seafires is closed chapter. What I would like to know, though, are the shades or RAL/BS numbers of Irish tricolour used on the airframe, if there are any, or equivalent of the Seafire Green used on Army vehicles, if there is any. That might give an answer on the shades of later repaints.
Or source and shades of paints used for repainting aircraft during emergency period - like Ansons, Gladiators, Magisters and many others, or I would welcome any clear evidence that the Green/White/Orange roundel was used on some of the early aircraft, but that's for another time
Filip
|
|
Rank: Spending too much time on the PC...
Groups: Member
Joined: 1/6/2010
Posts: 211
Points: -69
Location: Sixmilebridge
|
Filip et all
I suggest that a visit to the Military Archives in Dublin might get the question of colours tricolour etc in the files. Worth a visit by perhaps a Dublin based member.
David
|
|
Rank: Step away from the computer!
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/10/2009
Posts: 154
Points: 330
Location: Dublin
|
No Problem Filip, I was just playing :)
I agree, I would also be interested in the exact reference for the older Irish tri-colours.
Especially pre-war colours and how the paints were produced..
|
|
|
Guest |
